spnanonhaven

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#84

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ayrt

Here you go:

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/video/2012/07/16/video-a-few-minutes-with-supernatural-executive-producer-jeremy-carver-at-the-san-diego-comic-con-395501/20120715_supernatural5/#AevJBGmOTuZWHkjY.21

--he tried to backtrack "I mean hot mess in the best way"

LOL okay Jeremy

Ughhhh, is there anyone left on this show with any tact? Even if you think these things, you don't say it, jesus.

And at least Gamble didn't do fucking personality resets back to season 1.

Yeah, it does seem a little unprofessional.

It really makes me believe that Gamble probably had a lot of stuff planned for the end of the season that got dumped when she was fired. We already know from the Js that they rewrote the ending, so now just quick-erase Sam's issues, completely ignore Dean's since he's getting a reset anyway, don't put too much emphasis on the brothers since Sam won't care anymore by S8 anyway...

Bleh.

It honestly feels like Carver's prep for showrunning was to rewatch the Pilot, scribble down "Sam wants normal, needs to get away from his family and try for happiness" "Dean is gung ho about hunting" and go from there. Forget turning his back on s6-7, I can't see any evidence that he's thought about anything but the beginning of s1.

I hope his showrunning is better than it looks now, but at the moment he is in no position to cast stones at anyone else's handling of the storylines.

but that's crazy! I mean, he was in the show during seasons 3-5, right?
It's bad if he forgets about 6-7, not because I liked those seasons, that I did not, but because, well they exist! But forgetting about the seasons he worked in is disturbing.

I know, from experience, how easy it is to forget stuff you wrote years ago. He's been away immersed in another show. And it sounds like the writers on Spn don't communicate with each other that much or interact with each other's scripts, so he may not have had a particularly strong sense of overall canon for the seasons he worked on to begin with.

Obviously if you become showrunner you should sit down and do a rewatch of all of canon, taking careful notes. But somehow the picture I have in my head is of his, yeah, planning to do that some time in May, but he was terribly busy and he bogged down in Bugs and, oh well, he has a general sense of Sam and Dean now, right? And that should be enough to work with.

That may be very unfair. But it's the best I can come up with to explain the arbitrary wtf of what they are doing with Sam, especially combined with the fact that we seem to have a Dean who's all full of purpose and enthused about hunting again.

That may be very unfair. But it's the best I can come up with to explain the arbitrary wtf of what they are doing with Sam, especially combined with the fact that we seem to have a Dean who's all full of purpose and enthused about hunting again.

Did you want Dean to stay depressed forever? I think it's not so bad if they finally show some progression and I think the flashbacks are there to show how he got there.

As for Sam, i just hope the spoilers are misleading and there is more to it than he just simply gave up on looking for Dean. Otherwise I think it's not that terrible he's learning to want things for himself and connecting with people again.

With Sam, though, they're very much presenting it as "this is what Sam has always wanted." And there's an enormous, complicated history there in canon with Sam and normal and what he wants and whether he wants at all and being a freak, which no one has referred to. I think that having the characters progress only to both find themselves back to who they were seven years ago is lazy and unconvincing anyway -- why not have Sam go back to wanting and have it be something new? and something other than the same tired alternative of hunting with family or settling down into normal life, when he could have been discovering a different way of combining the elements of his life? -- but I'd like to at least see people referring to it and thinking of it in terms of cumulative canon.

When I compare it to Gamble's character discussions, it comes up very, very wanting.

da

I'm okay with Dean finding some strenght again. No problem on that, or anything about Dean and these spoilers.

But Sam. Sam learning to enjoy things is not bad, but giving up on Dean, not even trying, it's not bad, it's horrible. aybe if this was the very end of SPN, I could accept it. Sam is a douche, okay. End of the story. But it's not, Carver said he even thinks 2 more seasons could happen. So, what? Sam will be the brother that didn't try to save his brother, when Dean was fighting for his life. Sam's the hunter that couldn't, wouldn't. Again, the character noone likes.

DNW

And it's so totally out of nowhere. No one is talking about how Sam gets from 6.22 Sam to that, or from Time after Time Sam to that. Or from 7.23 Sam, who was all saving Kevin and "where are they?" to that.

There has to be some reveal on this.

DA

I think they had written themselves into a corner with Dean's depression and no, I don't want it to go on forever. However, I don't see how he's suddenly risen out of that rut and is super hunter again like these spoilers make it sound. Either Purgatory is magic or they're just dumping the whole depression thing and both instances make me sigh. But I should be used to lazy writing by now so...

Well, cured Dean will make a nice match for Sam who is, we are told, not damaged.

da

I don't want him to be depressed forever but after making it such a huge part of his characterization for seven years, resolving it offscreen with the potential to have it explained in flashbacks (because they've always done such a wonderful job with those!) is beyond bad writing.

I'm actually better with the Sam thing because I don't mind him not continuing to hunt and getting out if he really thinks Dean's dead.

But why would he think Dean's dead? He didn't, as of the end of 7.23. He wanted to know where Dean and Cas were. And Jared's said in interviews that Sam doesn't know where Dean is, Dean could be anywhere. It doesn't sound as though they are even going the route of having Sam think Dean is dead, just of having him think he's missing and that there's no point trying to look for him.

I'm sure it'll be a bit of a retcon or shoved in that he thought Dean was dead. It doesn't make a lot of sense, no, but I'd rather Sam be a bit naive or clueless and believe that Dean's dead than think Dean's probably alive and in trouble somewhere out there but eh, he won't bother to look.

Jared: "Bobby was gone, Cass was gone, Dean was gone, Kevin was gone. He had no idea where to even start. When Dean when to Hell, (Sam) knew he was in Hell, there was a crossroads deal you go to Hell after that. Sam went to the box, Dean knew he was in the box. Now, maybe he’s in Paris, he’s at the Louvre. There’s no guidelines. "

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/archive-articles/69-interviews/17257-jared-padalecki-interview-supernatural-at-comic-con-2012-press-room.html

Jared is filming 8.3. He's surely read at least 8.1. They've been talking about the reunion, so they know what Sam says to Dean about what happened. It doesn't look like Sam thought Dean was dead. Unless they are outright lying to us or unless there's some plot twist, then, yes, Sam thought Dean was probably alive somewhere but he wouldn't bother to look. Exactly that. And apparently the writers and actor have no trouble with that scenario.

Believe me, I've tried to spin this for myself. I can't believe that this is the actual picture. But there is no evidence contradicting it except incredulity that this can really be what they're doing.

da

What about in Time After Time? I mean, Cas wasn't around, Bobby was dead, Kevin wasn't introduced yet. Sam didn't know where Dean was, because he just vanished (sound familiar?) So did Sam give up? NO. He got together with Sheriff Mills and Bobby's old books and saved his fucking brother.

JESUS CHRIST, JEREMY CARVER, WATCH THE DAMN SHOW.

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