spnanonhaven

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#84

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Dean covering up that he worked with an untrustworthy monster sounds like a good thing to you?

I'm not saying the Sam stuff is great or perfect, I'm saying that the Dean stuff isn't swell either and yet we don't get the OTT reaction to it.

Dean's shenanigans with a new character aren't nearly as important as Sam and Dean dynamics. Which are going to change in the direction of Sam giving less fucks.

Please. If it were Sam who had a new monster BFF that he was covering things up for, people would be screaming about Ruby 2.0 all over the place.

da

For the record, I have called Benny "Dean's Ruby" like 3 times on meme, and I think it's fucking awful.

ayrt

It's really bugging me, too, especially on top of the whole "Dean drags Sam back into hunting against Sam's wishes" deal and the "Dean is randomly happy to be a hunter again" thing. IDK which of those bothers me the most. I'm just really confused why people are so certain that this Benny character is going to be all cool and neat and badass and make Dean seem sympathetic. Working with monsters and lying about it has never worked out well for them before.

da

Ruby storyline was hated because she came between the brothers. [That's what she said.] Sam ~chose her over his own brother. If Sam's spoilers weren't so crappy, we might now be prewanking that Benny could cause a rift between the brothers. But why do that if we know that Sam doesn't bother to look for Dean? Would we even be mad at Dean for choosing a monster over a brother who abandoned him?

People were mad about Ruby long before she ~came between them and considerably before Sam chose Ruby over Dean. (Or chose Ruby's plan over Dean's plan, whatever.) People were mad about Ruby because she was untrustworthy and clearly up to no good, yet Sam kept trusting her. Just like Dean apparently will be doing with Benny.

I think people are being awfully hard on Sam here. He's a torture victim who has lost all of his allies and who doesn't have a clue as to what happened when Dean vanished. There are spoilers that he thought Dean was dead and there are spoilers that he just thinks Dean was zapped elsewhere. We don't know if he tries anything or not. We just know that he got out. I don't blame him for trying to get out, not after everything he's suffered.

But people aren't upset at Sam for getting out of hunting, they're upset at him for not trying to find Dean. And Jared saying that Sam didn't know where to start so he walked away, combined with the spoiler that Dean resents that Sam didn't try to find him (which certainly suggest that the conversation at the reunion doesn't go "But, dude, I did try to find you!") really suggest that Sam doesn't try.

Anyone would cut Sam some slack for having a mental break as a torture victim in the face of a new, devastating loss, but Jared saying that Sam is not damaged and all the spoilers about how happy and normal his life is don't make it sound like Sam's sudden incapacity is a breakdown. Nor has he lost all his allies: Garth is still out there, Jody is still out there, Charlie is still out there, and that's just counting people from the past season, never mind possibilities like Missouri.

I will say that I find the fact that Jared seems to vary on whether Sam thought Dean was dead or thought he was elsewhere a bit encouraging. It suggests that some of the more wtf things Jared is saying are him flailing around for explanations, not reads of what's going on with Sam drawn directly from scripts.

I think that would depend on whether or not the new monster Sam teamed up with helped Sam get Dean out of Purgatory (and, I'm sure, also on whether Sam was sleeping with them). Sam doing shady stuff to save Dean would probably go over better than Sam doing shady stuff that is not directly related to getting Dean back.

I'm not saying the Sam stuff is great or perfect, I'm saying that the Dean stuff isn't swell either and yet we don't get the OTT reaction to it.

That's because the Dean stuff sounds at least potentially interesting or cool - it's not ideal by any means, but it's much less dire than the Sam stuff. If a lot of the season will be told in flashbacks, Dean's will at least be exciting stuff about monster-fighting and survival.

The Purgatory stuff sounds cool. Working with a monster who is untrustworthy and then covering it up is not. Having a kickass storyline - the first kickass storyline Dean's had in years - told in flashback form isn't cool. Having major changes made to his characterization that negate the build up of several seasons and will maybe be somehow explained in flashback form isn't cool.

Sam doesn't go look for Dean. He gets out of hunting and maybe has a sort of girlfriend for a while. Of those, only the first is negative.

da

Hey, I'd be happy to wank that with you! Especially as the lies are coming from Mr. Infinite Capacity To Hold Grudges For Lying Winchester (I suppose another teeny tiny part of Dean's last 4 years of characterization that's getting thrown by the wayside?) Augh.

But lying about stuff and yet getting upset about being lied to has been part of Dean's characterization for a long time. It may not be sympathetic, but it's not something that's difficult to reconcile with Dean's established characterization. Dean's lied about or concealed stuff in s2 (John's last words, his deal), in s6 (Sam's soullessness), and in s7 (Amy). I think he's actually lied to Sam more often than Sam has lied to him, though he usually gets found out a lot faster. This is established Dean characterization.

ayrt

YES, PLEASE. It's really pissing me off. You'd think that there'd be some in-universe comparisons to Ruby but apparently not. Dean working with Benny to begin with doesn't bother me but Dean working with Benny and then covering up what Benny does afterward and lying over it very much does.

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#84

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