#84

[spnanonhaven]

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Comments

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

If you listen to Jared talk about the show, it seems he only cares about plots that are fun for him as an actor and episodes his wife was in. Jensen is the only one that actually talks about the brother relationship.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

In my opinion, I find that Sam overall, is happiest when he's not attached to his family. He's an independent spirit, always has been and always will be. This is probably why he likes to part Dean from time to time. He likes the independence It's his nature.

Jared doesn't really care about the brother's relationship all that much. Never really has. I think he likes focusing on individual story lines for his character of Sam. How Sam evolves, his mindset. Of course, the next biggest thing he talks about his Genevieve and how grateful he is that Gen was in S4.

Yeah, Jared, imo, has never been overly enthusiastic about the brother's relationship.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

Yeah, Jared, imo, has never been overly enthusiastic about the brother's relationship.

I remember when Jared talked about that 'you know why' line in the S6 finale and how he felt it really summed either the show or Sam's character up, I can't remember which. It made me happy to hear, but even then it did seem like more of an exception to the rule of his interests in the show. :(

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

I don't get that impression. It's more to me that Jared likes to explore beyond the role of the sweet, sensitive younger brother and I can't blame him for that. Unfortunately, that's often the dynamic they go for when they write Sam'n'Dean-centric stuff. They switch it up occasionally (S3 was excellent for that!) but all too often it goes back to Dean trying to save/protect Sam. I can see why Jared would find that boring, especially after seven years and Sam now being 30.

Jared also has as tendency to stick his foot in it when he talks about the plot and character progression, so I don't pay that much attention to it. Remember the uproar when he claimed that Sam's time in Hell blew Dean's out of the water? He turned out to be right, but when he made that comment, he didn't know what had happened to Sam or seem to have much more knowledge about it than the fandom did and there had been nothing before that point to indicate that Sam's time was so much worse. And it's not like Jensen hasn't screwed up often enough, too.

IDK, it's just easier to me to ignore anything they say that isn't specifically regarding a known spoiler.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

na

Remember the uproar when he claimed that Sam's time in Hell blew Dean's out of the water?

This still makes me rage /o\

I agree, though, I can't fault him for wanting Sam to get out from the protected!younger brother - I want the same. Oh, s3 ♥

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Sam being the protector instead of the protected pings me like whoa, especially if it's in that sort of vaguely amoral, ends-justify-the-means manner that would let him sacrifice a virgin or come up with his "zombies, yay!" plan. Maybe it's even that he started out as the sweet one that makes me love that sort much - that contrast appeals to me to no end. So if that's what Jared is looking for, I'm biased because oh man. I would eat that up with a spoon! S3 is my favorite overall season for Sam, I can't think of a single episode in that season that I didn't really enjoy how he was characterized.

I mean, I'd prefer they explore new faucets with Sam's character that still allow him to connect with Dean, but I also can't fault him for wanting to just do something - anything - that shakes it up a bit. Jared seems easy to please though, so as long as he's doing something that gives him opportunity as an actor to grow, I think he'll be happy.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Me, too! I love that. S3 is by far my favorite Sam, he was wonderful and interesting and complex. I still think that Jared would rather explore independent!Sam, so I can't say I agree with him entirely. Like you said, I want different facets of Sam to be explored while he still has a meaningful connection to Dean. I want a logical exploration of Sam instead of what the spoilers are indicating. It also seems like we're getting more tension between the brothers and Jared likes that a lot, so I'm sure he's happy about all that.

I'm trying to be optimistic because I still think we're missing something big here.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

S3!Sam fans unite! I love him in other seasons too, but S3 holds a special place in my heart.

I think he prefers Sam independent as well. Or maybe not so much independent as doing his own thing? He seemed happy with S3 too, after all, and Sam was very much doing his own thing that season - his thing just happened to be All About Dean.

I can get why Sam would throw up his hands and bow out if he thought Dean were dead. I really can get that. And in thinking about how the season ended, there's nothing to indicate to him that Dean and Cas were taken to Purgatory. I'd have preferred that he try to rescue Kevin at least, but Sam's tried to lay siege to Hell before for someone he cares about a whole lot more than Kevin and failed, so I can understand that he might not want to go down that road again.

I think that, for me, it'll depend in large part on how it's played out. If Sam had any shred of reason to believe that Dean was alive but elsewhere, I'll be boggled as to how his decision fits at all with his characterization. But in S7, Sam and Dean both just seemed so tired. And Sam in particular seemed to only go along with hunting the Leviathans (and hunting in general) because it was what Dean seemed to want, when Dean wanted anything besides another drink. And now he doesn't have Dean to prod him into hunting, so why keep going? Why not back off and give up? I can get that perspective, I really can.

It isn't the fan favorite one, that's for sure. It's not the more dynamic, dramatic choice they could have made. It's one of two options that I can see making sense for Sam's character (again, depending on how they play it) but it's the boring, safe one. And this show has so often chosen "boring and safe" instead of "dramatic and interesting" over the past few years that it's becoming painful to watch. I can get why it might work for Sam's character, but from a narrative and dramatic storytelling POV, I don't understand for an instant why they'd go there, especially since it just seems to be setting up for more distrust with Dean's (new) Deal.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Hmm, I thought there was indication that Dean and Castiel were in purgatory with the "hell of a kickback" line, but who knows. I just find it hard to believe that Sam wouldn't even try a little to investigate what was going on. Just to give up even when there's no confirmation that Dean is dead? Never mind how ridiculous it would be to try to have a normal life when you're officially listed as dead and wear the face of a very well known serial killer, that's not in Sam's character AT ALL. But I think everyone's in agreement about that. I still believe there must be some sort of interference with Sam or SOMETHING, which I also DNW because we don't need another 'something supernatural is wrong with Sam' plotline, either. It seems like a lose/lose.

If Sam was told that Dean was dead, I can see him leaving the hunting life for sure, giving up, but I guess I can't get behind him being happy and in a normal relationship so quickly - after a few years of coming to terms with it on his own, maybe, but not within the year of everything that happened.

And this show has so often chosen "boring and safe" instead of "dramatic and interesting" over the past few years that it's becoming painful to watch.

Agreed :(

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

This show glosses over petty details like "being wanted for mass murder" far too often. I really, really wish they'd never gone there with the Leviathans last year. Or if they had, they should have had the guts to kick Sam over to Purgatory instead of trying to give Sam a "regular" life in the suburbs or whatever. All I can do is hope that Amelia is treated better than poor Daphne - she actually married her TFW Member In Exile! And then never again mentioned by the narrative. WTF. I'm not particularly interested in any of Castiel's potential romantic arcs (I'm not interested enough in Castiel himself as a character for that, no offense Cas fans) but the dropped plot points hurt my soul.

From the spoilers, it sounds like they're going to set up a What's Wrong With Dean plot this season, since Dean's made his deal with "Benny" and seems to be keeping it a secret. Why he'd bother to keep that a secret, IDK, but who knows. It's not like that feels particularly IC either, especially since it sounds like he leaves Cas behind in Purgatory when he gets out. (Don't care much about Cas but I care a whole fuckton about Dean and Dean abandoning anyone in a situation like that leaves me seething.)

I think I need to find out more about Amelia before I make judgments on how well it works. My gut is to agree with you but there's a reason why "stranger in trouble with mysterious past sparks up a romance with innocent civilian" is such a well known trope. And very powerful bonds can be forged in dangerous situations, which is also a plot that I'm usually okay with.

I just really want Amelia to stand on her own - not be a repeat of either Ruby or Lisa. Something unique and individual.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

DA

But Sam and Amelia don't seem to form an initial bond in a dangerous situation. He doesn't meet her in a supernatural context, unless they are lying to us. He accidentally hits a dog and brings it to her (she's a vet). And we're told later they have a normal relationship with normal problems. They do seem to bond over their traumatic pasts, and I do like the idea of Sam actually talking to someone (and PLEASE let us actually see it, not just find out that Sam's told her all about himself offscreen), but the whole thing made more sense to me when I thought it was a hunting encounter.

I swear, every time there's some obvious thing Spn could do to make this kind of thing more comprehensible, they go out of their way to avoid it.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Heh, agreed. The writers dig themselves into holes that they can't get out of, so they gloss over it. I'm not holding my breath for Amelia's characterization because of the show's treatment of females :( She'll probably be ignored once the flashbacks with her are over. I'm still not sure how I feel about her role but I'm at least willing to see how she plays out as a character. I don't want her to just be the character who makes Sam ~~happy, but rather someone interesting and complex on her own merit.

I'm not entirely against a What's Wrong with Dean plot because we've never gotten it before, and I'm all about a plot-heavy Dean season and a more emotional Sam-heavy season (although not with the emotions we've been told D:) so again, I'm optimistic there, too. It's Sam being painted as a callous asshole that worries me.

As a Casfan I'm concerned where they're going with him, especially with him being left behind in purgatory. Then again, we don't know what's going on there at all, so who knows. I don't want him to be left behind and I can't see Dean deciding to leave him behind, so I suspect something goes wrong there to keep Cas in purgatory and Dean didn't know about it. That's my story, anyway! *nods*

As long as Dean's deal doesn't involve him hiding something horrible he did (with Jensen saying that Dean is hiding things from Sam that happened in purgatory) I'm curious there. We don't need more ignoring of Dean's victimization and trauma while adding more about him doing ~horrible things ;_;

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

But then wouldn't he WANT Sam to be the proactive one trying to save/protect Dean? That would be a different dynamic (not including parts of S3) from Dean always saving/protecting him? It makes no sense

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

Yeah, exactly. This! this was a golden chance for Sam to grow as a character. I don't understand how they don't see it when it's in front of their eyes.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Instead we get Sam who decides he's done enough and doesn't even bother trying to figure out where his brother is. All this does is give fodder to the ESHs who always said that Dean cares more about Sam than Sam does about Dean.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I guess I really don't see Sam as protected younger brother after s2 (Dean having to save or stop him was more a plot thing, and didn't go with a protective emotional dynamic). Sam DID grow, destructively in s4, then into a mature and equal relationship (on his side) with Dean in late s5. I don't think he felt the same need later that he'd felt in s3 and, in more tangled ways, s4 to try for role reversal and be protector rather than protected, but in 5.18, in late s6, at various points in s7 he was offering Dean support and concern from a position of equality.

Dean was having more difficulty letting go the role of caretaker than Sam was the role of caretaken (naturally enough, Sam had done a lot more conscious rebelling against that role over his life). I think post s5 they dropped the ball on Dean's growth more than on Sam, but the real problem wasn't in either character so much as in the writers being unable to figure out how to give a more equal dynamic any degree of intensity. They so, so nearly did, in 7.2 and in the scenes where Sam pressed Dean on his drinking or his suicidal behavior, but then they backed away into a sort of collegial neutrality.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

I think you're right that Sam really moved beyond the role of protected little brother in S2, but it was only on one level. Over and over again, the plot cycled back to something being wrong with Sam (again) and Dean needing to step up and figure it out and save it. On a meta level, it puts Sam right back into the "protected little brother" role.

Agreed to no end about the ball on Dean's growth being dropped. I think they were trying for something in S6 with darker!Dean and, at times, they actually succeeded. S6 was the only time since S4 that we had any exploration of Dean's time in Hell and I really enjoyed that. We had far more references to Dean torturing but there were also hints at him as a victim as well. The problem was that by the end of the season, it went from a fairly balanced look to Dean behaving in a way that seemed almost unbelievable and was so grossly unsympathetic that it drove away his fans. Then S7 came along and even that much was dropped. If anything, Dean regressed and became almost unrecognizable, right before turning completely stagnant.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

Man, I only love Dean even more lately, so it's interesting to see this "Dean's characterization driving away his fans" because I haven't seen any of my Deangirl friends feel that way. Not saying they aren't there, of course, but it's interesting.

I agree with this comment, though, they dropped the ball on his growth and exploration when it was right there in front of them, as well as pushing Sam into the little brother role.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I still love him, more than ever even, but I don't like him. There's been a lot of Dean!girls talking on meme over S7 about how they dislike his current characterization. I've seen a lot of people comment about how they don't feel like writing Dean-centric fic because he's either unsympathetic or uninteresting to them, too.

Of the Dean!girls on my flist who are still active, there's two who are still enthused about his character and current characterization and a half dozen who are pissed off about it and dislike how he's been written for the past year and a half. Meme's even discussed it often enough that the break in characterization seems focused at 6.06 for a lot of people. There might be only ~6 or so angry Dean girls on my flist these days but that's discounting the high volume of others who just moved onto greener pastures or dropped out of fandom entirely but might comment on someone else's post about how Dean with statements expressing their displeasure.

It's just my own experience and all but it isn't one that seems at all unusual to me. I thought it was fairly well established that Dean's characterization had driven away a lot of his fans.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da


I'm so happy that Sam has grown out of the little brother to Dean role. I got so sick of it. I hate how Sam was constant;y treated like a baby, even into S7. The guy is almost 30. Have him grow up, evolve, grow some independence and have his own identity. And break Sam's codependence with Dean. I'm a huge fan of independent!Sam.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, you! I'm almost beginning to feel a certain affection for your highly predictable contributions.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I'm not in his head, so I can't explain that for you. It's what I'd prefer too. :/ The only thing I can guess is that it just hasn't been made an option for him. Sam being alone and out of the hunt has been given to him and he's excited about that because it's what's actually on the table.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

That's exactly what Jared DID want. He's the one that first brought up them being able to go back and fix something they did differently in the past. So because that's not happening, now Jared is trying to be positive and find something to look forward to in the storyline they have given him, people are bashing him. :(((

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

da

We really have no idea what specific thing he was referring to in his remarks around the end of last season.

Re: CC Press video interviews--SPOILERS

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're right that he probably wanted that. I don't think many people here are bashing him though, aside from a few obvious wankbaity trolls: "Jared doesn't care about the brothers hurr hurr."

I mean, if you ignore the Crabbe and Goyle types, people aren't really bashing him, they're allowing that he might have valid reasons as an actor for preferring the brothers to be separated, and they don't seem mad at him for it.