#84

[spnanonhaven]

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Comments

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Also, the most recent ep Carver wrote was PoNR, so if you are judging his preferences by his writing assignments you might as well say that he was big on Sam and Dean's love saving the world and saw Cas as the guy who beat up Dean.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Well, hopefully Carver will give us something about the brother dynamic at the Comic Con panel. That's what I'm interested in, and without knowing what direction he's heading, I'm still wary

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

I still don't trust Carver as far as I can throw him.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Is there anyone you would trust?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

No. Not really. I don't trust any of the writers for this show.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

...Then can I ask why you're still watching? It seems like a recipe to make yourself miserable.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

hippie!Jesus, now that's a guy you can trust

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

sa

And I also don't trust that he would write Sam's character effectively. I just don't trust him in that aspect.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

How so? What is it that you hope for with Sam that you don't think Carver will deliver on?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

He wrote MS. He wrote AVSC. He wrote 5.3, which, even if you hated the separation, had some pretty awesome Sam. He wrote PoNR, where Sam's willingness to go on trusting Dean when Dean couldn't trust him saved Dean and the world.

Did you really dislike the characterization of Sam in all those eps?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah, I did. I prefer Gamble's version of Sam.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not sure I've ever talked to a nonnie who disliked the Sam characterization in all of those episodes. What does Gamble's Sam have that Carver's lacks, or what does Carver's have that you dislike?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

The only major difference that I can see between Carver's Sam and Gamble's Sam (at least in S6-S7) is that Gamble's Sam is whumped more often. Maybe this is the anon who didn't like the idea of independent!Sam?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

But 5.3 Sam was the original terrorized by Lucifer Sam, and 5.18 Sam bled from the mouth a lot. And Gamble didn't write a large percentage of the Samcentric eps in s6 and s7 (granted, 7.17 amid its overcrowding and pacing flaws had truly excellent scruffy, pale, dressed-in-white whumped!Sam, though I still think Edlund first when I think of defining s7 Sam).

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

5.03 doesn't count, I'm sure, because Dean didn't let Sam join up again immediately and there were too many Dean and Cas shenanigans. 5.18 wouldn't count because Dean's beating was more dramatic and Sam wasn't the one to beat him up.

Gamble didn't write all the Sam centric eps but she was the showrunner who would have approved them, so she gets credit for them. And now that she's off the show, she's a much more appealing candidate as a Sam-favoring writer. And Edlund? PLEASE. That man keeps shoving his Dean/Cas fuckfest down our throats. That he wrote most of the Sam centric eps just means how low we've sunk and how bad the Sam writing is these days.

In case it isn't obvious, I don't believe any of this myself. I can see someone else believing it though, especially if they're looking for any reason to be unhappy about Sam's upcoming role.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

5.18 had Sam saying that he'd been wrong every time he left. Understandable, in the rhetorical press of the moment, in the aftermath of s4 and in the immediate wake of Dean's responses in 5.16, but I hope and trust that independent!Sam has recovered since from that Carver-authored underestimation of himself!

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I just found him off in all of those episodes. He was extremely OOC for me. I don't know. I just don't like the way that Carver writes Sam's character overall. He becomes somewhat unlikeable for me. I much prefer Gamble's writing for Sam. I don't trust Carver at all when it comes to Sam's character. I never have. I think Gamble writes Sam much better and more sympathetically. She's the only writer I have always felt understood the character of Sam in and out.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

How on earth can you write that much stuff and end up saying almost nothing?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

how on earth can you expect otherwise from the ayrt?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

na

They have a gift that I truly envy when I have papers to do.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

I think this is the anon who doesn't like MS!Sam?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

OK. Well, it's hard to have any kind of conversation with you on this when you aren't giving specific examples from the text (What words or actions struck you as OOC in Carver Sam? What else in canon can you cite that makes you think Sam wouldn't say or do those things? What actions or words of Sam's in Carver eps made him unlikable to you? What specific Sam moments in Gamble eps show her understanding of the charaacter?) but just repeat yourself over and over, so I'll leave you to it. Of course, it's fine not to want to bother with digging up specific examples of your points, it being an anon meme for a TV show and all, but without anything concrete to back or illustrate what you're saying you aren't really giving the rest of us anything to engage with.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I don't think I can point out specifics. It's an overall vibe. Sam just came off cold, distant, and unsympathetic in all of those episodes. That's all. It's just not the Sam that I love or prefer. I think it is more the fact that I just strongly prefer Gambles version of Sam over Carver's or Edlund's. I don't trust Edlund either when it comes to Sam. The only person I trusted with Sam's character was Sera Gamble. But sadly, she's gone. So I'm skeptical for Sam's character in season 8.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da.

Family Remains is a really good example of his crappy handling of Sam.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

But he will murder Dean a million times by the end of the season!