spnanonhaven

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#84

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ayrt

I don't think I can point out specifics. It's an overall vibe. Sam just came off cold, distant, and unsympathetic in all of those episodes. That's all. It's just not the Sam that I love or prefer. I think it is more the fact that I just strongly prefer Gambles version of Sam over Carver's or Edlund's. I don't trust Edlund either when it comes to Sam. The only person I trusted with Sam's character was Sera Gamble. But sadly, she's gone. So I'm skeptical for Sam's character in season 8.

da

LOL, but also a bit pathetic.

da

came off cold, distant, and unsympathetic in all of those episodes.

How one could get that off of Sam's characterization in 5.18 is super confusing to me.

da

Or in 5.03. His poor hurt puppy face :( And Lucifer :( And his scenes with Lindsay!

DA

BAW, don't make me sad, nonnie! Now all I can think about is poor puppy Sammy :(

Is it possible that this is "Bobby always throws Sam under a bus" nonnie? Because now I am imagining a version of 5.18 Sam who coldly and deliberately let Dean go in the hopes that he would carry through on suicide by angel, much like evol!Bobby, but without the cricket whites.

da

It was a fiendish plan. We could call his supposed declaration of love and trust a tactical declaration.

/stretching.

Because you're still my big brother -- and that means maybe if you die I get your stuff.

Sam just wanted the car. He was so chagrined by the utter failure of his plan that in 5.22 when he saw Dean there leaning against the Impala he cast himself into the Cage in a fit of pique.

Cas's failure to get all of him out of the Cage was actually awesome for Sam. He could be distant and unsympathetic like he'd been wanting to all along! Dean thinking something was WRONG and trying to get him a runner was a horrible betrayal of his true nature.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 04:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 05:01 (UTC) - Expand

And AVSC. The way Sam coldly, distantly, and unsympathetically couldn't bear the thought of celebrating Christmas with Dean when he knew he was losing him, and the way he coldly, distantly, and unsympathetically did so anyway and gave Dean a Christmas because Dean wanted it. I look at that Sam and I think "that man has no heart."

He knew Dean really secretly wanted Hanukkah, but coldly and unsympathetically dreidel-denied him.

*headdesk*

Nonnie, if we asked you to quote a few words of Sam's or name a few specific actions of his from those eps -- not make an argument about them, not even say what you feel about them, just mention some concrete things he said or did in the eps under discussion -- would you be able to do it? Because you are giving a seriously brilliant imitation of a person trying to write about a book they haven't read or only very vaguely remember.

ayrt

I just strongly prefer Gamble's version of Sam over Carver. I was really unhappy when Sera was announced to have left the show. I don't care for Carver's writing at all. I really liked Sera and her writing. She wrote Sam the best for me. Sera wrote Sam as the warm, sympathetic character that I like. I'm very worried for Sam next season. And with Carver and Edlund combined? No way do I trust them. I'm not a fan of either of their writing.

da

OMG they did it again! impressive!

da

I cracked up.

We should call combined Carver and Edlund "Edver". S8 is totally going to be Destial fuckfest + Sam making unsympathetic declarations of love while being cold. He should wear more shirts while skydiving in the distance.

da

This anon is starting to sound like one of those bots that you feed a corpus into and it produces grammatical but empty statements on the topic of the corpus.

That is exactly what they sound like. It's eerie.

Uh, yes. We got that. We have also comprehensively grasped your complete inability to support any of your statements with any evidence that you are even distantly acquainted with the text you are trying to talk about. Your obtuseness is, in its way, masterful.

(BTW, while I would certainly agree that 4.21 is, in terms of insight into headspace and motivation for Sam at a very unlikable moment, a sympathetic Sam ep, I would still be very interested to read your comparison and contrast between that ep and 5.18.)

ayrt

Look, all I can say is that I hope Carver proves me wrong in season 8. But I don't think I'm wrong to be very skeptical of Carver and Edlund being in charge, esp. in regards to Sam and the writing for him. Carver is a Dean fanboy and Edlund is a Cas fanboy. The only writer whom I felt cared about Sam whatsoever or put any kind of effort into him was Gamble.

da

But...you're not actually saying anything? Not anything with substance anyway, so it's really hard to have a conversation about it.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 05:29 (UTC) - Expand

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 05:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 05:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 05:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

(Anonymous) - 2012-07-07 09:47 (UTC) - Expand

DA

Sam becoming distraught over seeing his brother die over and over again in front of him in MS seemed cold, distant, and unsympathetic? Are we using the same dictionary?

And how do you know that's how it was written? If you think about the situations Sam was very sweet. If you got that vibe, how do you know it was the writing and not something about Jared that was giving you that vibe? (Although, I, for one, thought he did well in all of the episodes mentioned.)

SA

OK, sweet was not the right word choice. But I'm tired and can't think of anything better than sympathetic and caring.

da

Jared probably hates Carver (for, IDK, not being Gamble. People who don't want him to take his shirt off unsettle him), and acted cold, distant, and unsympathetic in those episodes due to the trauma of having to act out a Carver script.

da

WAIT A MINUTE!

are you saying Jared is cold, distant and unsympathetic when he's not shirtless? Now I just won't stand for that!!! I'm going to start a petition to get shirtless!Sam back!!!!!

Well *of course* him wearing a shirt means he's cold. Start a petition to move filming from Vancouver. I hear Perth has a nice greyhound track.

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