#84

[spnanonhaven]

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Comments

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not sure I've ever talked to a nonnie who disliked the Sam characterization in all of those episodes. What does Gamble's Sam have that Carver's lacks, or what does Carver's have that you dislike?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

The only major difference that I can see between Carver's Sam and Gamble's Sam (at least in S6-S7) is that Gamble's Sam is whumped more often. Maybe this is the anon who didn't like the idea of independent!Sam?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

But 5.3 Sam was the original terrorized by Lucifer Sam, and 5.18 Sam bled from the mouth a lot. And Gamble didn't write a large percentage of the Samcentric eps in s6 and s7 (granted, 7.17 amid its overcrowding and pacing flaws had truly excellent scruffy, pale, dressed-in-white whumped!Sam, though I still think Edlund first when I think of defining s7 Sam).

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

5.03 doesn't count, I'm sure, because Dean didn't let Sam join up again immediately and there were too many Dean and Cas shenanigans. 5.18 wouldn't count because Dean's beating was more dramatic and Sam wasn't the one to beat him up.

Gamble didn't write all the Sam centric eps but she was the showrunner who would have approved them, so she gets credit for them. And now that she's off the show, she's a much more appealing candidate as a Sam-favoring writer. And Edlund? PLEASE. That man keeps shoving his Dean/Cas fuckfest down our throats. That he wrote most of the Sam centric eps just means how low we've sunk and how bad the Sam writing is these days.

In case it isn't obvious, I don't believe any of this myself. I can see someone else believing it though, especially if they're looking for any reason to be unhappy about Sam's upcoming role.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

You are scary good at that.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Unfortunately, I've heard all of it before. :/ I'm just rephrasing the words of others.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

This raises my blood pressure in very familiar ways :) You did a good job, nonnie!

I think we (people) have a tendency to look on things in the past very favorably, even while we complain about the same things in the present. We complain about Gamble until she's off the show and then we talk about how great she was, and how horrible things will be without her. We wax nostalgic about old Carver episodes until he's put in charge of the show, and then the paranoia comes out.

(Also, this happens with characters. Lisa, Jo, etc.).

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

5.18 had Sam saying that he'd been wrong every time he left. Understandable, in the rhetorical press of the moment, in the aftermath of s4 and in the immediate wake of Dean's responses in 5.16, but I hope and trust that independent!Sam has recovered since from that Carver-authored underestimation of himself!

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I just found him off in all of those episodes. He was extremely OOC for me. I don't know. I just don't like the way that Carver writes Sam's character overall. He becomes somewhat unlikeable for me. I much prefer Gamble's writing for Sam. I don't trust Carver at all when it comes to Sam's character. I never have. I think Gamble writes Sam much better and more sympathetically. She's the only writer I have always felt understood the character of Sam in and out.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

How on earth can you write that much stuff and end up saying almost nothing?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

how on earth can you expect otherwise from the ayrt?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

na

They have a gift that I truly envy when I have papers to do.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

or the day before your bang fic is due...

-serial big bang dropper-outter

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

They have a gift I mournfully recognize from when I've had papers to grade.

If you don't have this gift, nonnie, your professors thank you for lacking it!

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

I think this is the anon who doesn't like MS!Sam?

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

na

Disliking MS!Sam is one thing, though rare, but *also* AVSC Sam? AND PONR Sam? WTF do these have in common to dislike? Oh yeah, the cold, distant, and unsympathetic vibe. Silly me.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

OK. Well, it's hard to have any kind of conversation with you on this when you aren't giving specific examples from the text (What words or actions struck you as OOC in Carver Sam? What else in canon can you cite that makes you think Sam wouldn't say or do those things? What actions or words of Sam's in Carver eps made him unlikable to you? What specific Sam moments in Gamble eps show her understanding of the charaacter?) but just repeat yourself over and over, so I'll leave you to it. Of course, it's fine not to want to bother with digging up specific examples of your points, it being an anon meme for a TV show and all, but without anything concrete to back or illustrate what you're saying you aren't really giving the rest of us anything to engage with.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I don't think I can point out specifics. It's an overall vibe. Sam just came off cold, distant, and unsympathetic in all of those episodes. That's all. It's just not the Sam that I love or prefer. I think it is more the fact that I just strongly prefer Gambles version of Sam over Carver's or Edlund's. I don't trust Edlund either when it comes to Sam. The only person I trusted with Sam's character was Sera Gamble. But sadly, she's gone. So I'm skeptical for Sam's character in season 8.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

LOL, but also a bit pathetic.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da

came off cold, distant, and unsympathetic in all of those episodes.

How one could get that off of Sam's characterization in 5.18 is super confusing to me.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

*headdesk*

Nonnie, if we asked you to quote a few words of Sam's or name a few specific actions of his from those eps -- not make an argument about them, not even say what you feel about them, just mention some concrete things he said or did in the eps under discussion -- would you be able to do it? Because you are giving a seriously brilliant imitation of a person trying to write about a book they haven't read or only very vaguely remember.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Sam becoming distraught over seeing his brother die over and over again in front of him in MS seemed cold, distant, and unsympathetic? Are we using the same dictionary?

And how do you know that's how it was written? If you think about the situations Sam was very sweet. If you got that vibe, how do you know it was the writing and not something about Jared that was giving you that vibe? (Although, I, for one, thought he did well in all of the episodes mentioned.)

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

da.

Family Remains is a really good example of his crappy handling of Sam.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

I thought Family Remains was AWFUL.

Re: question about Sam and season 8.

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't love Family Remains, but not because Sam's characterization was off. It had Sam concerned about Dean, aware of the distance between them, and clearly uneasy at not knowing how to approach Dean's hell trauma, which was pretty believable for mid-s4.

Also, that isn't a very specific example. What about the writing of Sam in Family Remains bothers you? Not that I think you are that nonnie, who I suspect may be trolling, but it's a lot easier to talk about stuff like "I don't think that Dean, who's always been protective to a fault, would let unicorn baby play outside in a tornado," than just saying that you think 9.4 is an example of how crappily its author writes Dean.