#84

[spnanonhaven]

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Comments

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

Is it really so weird that some people watch the damn show for Sam and Dean, and not for Sam and Character B and Dean and Character C? The best parts of the X-Files for me were scenes with Mulder and Scully together, and no one told me I was an asshole for liking that

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

It's okay to watch the show for Sam and Dean, but not at the expense of individual character development. Sam and Dean have shown no progress in their relationship since season 5 in my opinion. I see to evolvement and growth. Their relationship has become nothing more then a unhealthy codependent soap opera. It's stale and boring. There needs to be some alterations and changes in the relationship. There are plenty of people that are saying that after watching the same co-dependent relationship between Sam and Dean for the past 5 seasons.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

And that's fine, but I'm just saying that some people don't find them with other people as interesting as when they are together, and that maybe the writers should figure out a way to energize their relationship again instead of the separate-them-reunite-them-rinse-and-repeat thing that they do. The writers are lazy--we know this--but I don't think separation is this big salvation that people think it is, and in the meantime I'm more likely to be bored if they are off with characters I don't care as much about.

You might be totally fine with them doing that, and that's awesome, but don't tell me that I'm watching the show wrong because I'd rather have them figure out a way develop them as individuals without making the show two separate stories.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

But they've tried to solve Sam/Dean's relationship by having them always together and it doesn't work! It's still not working Nothing has happened! Nothing has changed! Nothing has progressed! They're stuck in the same place that they were in in season 5. If something or a method is not working; something that you have repeatedly tried over and over again for how many seasons isn't working, it means it's time to try something else. Something new. The way Sam and Dean have been for the past 5 seasons hasn't worked and it still isn't working. They need to add something new to their dynamic. IT'S BORING. If plenty of other people are saying it, chances are it's true. I even see Sam and Dean fans saying that they need to evolve and need their own identity.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Because they didn't follow through and got fucking lazy! Think about 7.2 and the warehouse scene. Think about how Dean could have used his experiences in hell to help Sam deal with his experiences in hell. Think about things that only the two of them could ever imagine sharing with each other. If they had followed through with the character development they started (yes, together) then maybe we wouldn't had the boring season that we ended up with

Moral of the story: just because the writers didn't do something last season doesn't mean they can't get off their asses and figure it out this season

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

I think what they really need is to find a way to make Sam and Dean essential to the show's storylines again. The first 5 seasons they were pretty much forced to face themselves and each other because of all the shit that was going down, stuff they were both cosmically dragged into and that happened based on choices they made. Since mid-s6 it's like they've just kind of been meandering around, hating their lives and just reacting to stuff that happens around them.

IMO it isn't their togetherness that "isn't working"--it's the plotlines, and how their characters fit into them at all anymore. Things that I can only see fixed with better writing or, I guess, getting rid of the Winchesters and just writing the show about whoever they want to revolve their plots around now.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

I agree with this, especially your first line. The thing that worries me is that Singer is saying it's another angel-demon season, and about Kevin and the world of God and all that. Even if the brothers are the ones helping out in this "quest", I doubt they will be essential to what happens

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah, I mean I'll wait til Comic Con to start fretting, but at this point the only way I can see Sam and Dean fitting into that story at all is by becoming Kevin's babysitters for the year or something. They have no power to match angels or demons, so I don't see how they could be a part of a heaven vs hell fight.

I'm also wondering if Purgatory stuff might tie in somehow, so fingers crossed for that, maybe? Or if it's just a b-plot, an interesting and enlightening one, at the very least? :/

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I just think it all got too big for them once they added the angels. The show was built on the premise of family and reconnection and what it means to be human (or not). The early mytharcs, even when they involved things like demon deals, were still very focused, which made them more emotional. But once you added the angels, suddenly the plot was way bigger than just the story of the Winchester family, and they had to turn Sam and Dean into meatsuits in order to keep them even remotely connected to the plot.

...but you know all this lol. Sorry, I'm just venting. Don't know how Singer expects to achieve the vibe of S2/3 when you have another heaven/hell A-plot

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

And it's not possible for them to have develpment together?
I mean, secondary characters and just the stuff that happens CAN'T influence both brothers, why exactly?

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

No, not effective character development. Sam and Dean need to find themselves away from each other. It's obvious that they can't do that when they're together all the time.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

"Find themselves away from each other as long as Dean is off repairing his profound bond with Castiel"

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

na
+1
You hit the nail straight on. 9 out of 10 people who say what the ayrt say are always Cas and D/C fans.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

I want them to find themselves apart and I'm a Samfan. :\

So 2 out of 10 at least.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

Also a Sam fan, who'd like for Sam to find his own identity away from Dean. What happened to independent, strong willed Sam?

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Their relationship has actually been rather low key recently -- most of their interactions in the latter half of s6 and s7 have been on a fairly even keel, with relatively few moments of great drama compared to earlier seasons. The few really intense moments we've had -- like 7.2 -- have been excellent. They might do better to try for MORE soap operaish, rather than less.

Some also see that very lack of drama as progress in their relationship, and I think there's something to that, though I also think that to some extent they are getting along on the surface and would do well to dig deeper and risk fireworks.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

My memory might be bad, because I was in junior high at the time, but I don't think there was tons of outrage whenever Mulder and Scully interacted with other people (prior to Mulder leaving the show). I remember intense dislike of antagonists and women-not-named-Scully, but I don't remember fearing that time would be taken from Mulder and Scully. Granted, I can't remember that show ever having a breakout character.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't the guy from Time After Time a breakout character on X-Files?

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

na

Yes, he was, and Mulder/Krycek was a big ship.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I knew Krycek/Mulder was a big ship (being in junior high, I stuck to Mulder/Scully pr0n, because slash seemed totally weird). I remember him being popular (RATBOY!) but I didn't think of him a breakout, because I thought the role wasn't explicitly planned as a one-off?

I haven't watched more than a handful of episodes since it went off the air, though. I was, um, pretty bitter.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

I watch the show for Sam and Dean as individuals as well as a team, but I have no issues with them having some time apart. This is particular true of the purgatory storyline. I'd love to see Dean's time in purgatory as well as Sam's desperate attempt to get him (and Cas) out. There's so much build up in the finale I really want them to explore that storyline.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Probably because X-Philes weren't swanning around claiming that the show should stop having so many other characters and whining that the show was only good when Mulder and Scully were in the same scene. If anything, I remember people wanting more of their parents, more CSM, more Rufus Mr. X, more Skinner, more Krycek ...

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

There is nothing wrong with watching show for Sam and Dean, for Sam and character B, or Dean and character C (or, heavens forbid, characters B and C). Unfortunately, some people who watch for Sam and Dean don't get this. So they have to keep hammering over and over how show can only follow two characters, how you're in the wrong if you follow other characters other than those, how you CAN'T complain if you feel character B or C was mischaracterized or mistreated, how character B or C are nothing but worthless fanservice, how character B or C are intruding, and so on and so on. THIS is assholish. Not preferring whatever characters you prefer.

There's countless ways to display a preference for a character, without the childish need to bash other characters and their fans.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

Hello.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

Hello.