#84

[spnanonhaven]

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Comments

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

And that's fine, but I'm just saying that some people don't find them with other people as interesting as when they are together, and that maybe the writers should figure out a way to energize their relationship again instead of the separate-them-reunite-them-rinse-and-repeat thing that they do. The writers are lazy--we know this--but I don't think separation is this big salvation that people think it is, and in the meantime I'm more likely to be bored if they are off with characters I don't care as much about.

You might be totally fine with them doing that, and that's awesome, but don't tell me that I'm watching the show wrong because I'd rather have them figure out a way develop them as individuals without making the show two separate stories.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

But they've tried to solve Sam/Dean's relationship by having them always together and it doesn't work! It's still not working Nothing has happened! Nothing has changed! Nothing has progressed! They're stuck in the same place that they were in in season 5. If something or a method is not working; something that you have repeatedly tried over and over again for how many seasons isn't working, it means it's time to try something else. Something new. The way Sam and Dean have been for the past 5 seasons hasn't worked and it still isn't working. They need to add something new to their dynamic. IT'S BORING. If plenty of other people are saying it, chances are it's true. I even see Sam and Dean fans saying that they need to evolve and need their own identity.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Because they didn't follow through and got fucking lazy! Think about 7.2 and the warehouse scene. Think about how Dean could have used his experiences in hell to help Sam deal with his experiences in hell. Think about things that only the two of them could ever imagine sharing with each other. If they had followed through with the character development they started (yes, together) then maybe we wouldn't had the boring season that we ended up with

Moral of the story: just because the writers didn't do something last season doesn't mean they can't get off their asses and figure it out this season

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

I think what they really need is to find a way to make Sam and Dean essential to the show's storylines again. The first 5 seasons they were pretty much forced to face themselves and each other because of all the shit that was going down, stuff they were both cosmically dragged into and that happened based on choices they made. Since mid-s6 it's like they've just kind of been meandering around, hating their lives and just reacting to stuff that happens around them.

IMO it isn't their togetherness that "isn't working"--it's the plotlines, and how their characters fit into them at all anymore. Things that I can only see fixed with better writing or, I guess, getting rid of the Winchesters and just writing the show about whoever they want to revolve their plots around now.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

I agree with this, especially your first line. The thing that worries me is that Singer is saying it's another angel-demon season, and about Kevin and the world of God and all that. Even if the brothers are the ones helping out in this "quest", I doubt they will be essential to what happens

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah, I mean I'll wait til Comic Con to start fretting, but at this point the only way I can see Sam and Dean fitting into that story at all is by becoming Kevin's babysitters for the year or something. They have no power to match angels or demons, so I don't see how they could be a part of a heaven vs hell fight.

I'm also wondering if Purgatory stuff might tie in somehow, so fingers crossed for that, maybe? Or if it's just a b-plot, an interesting and enlightening one, at the very least? :/

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I just think it all got too big for them once they added the angels. The show was built on the premise of family and reconnection and what it means to be human (or not). The early mytharcs, even when they involved things like demon deals, were still very focused, which made them more emotional. But once you added the angels, suddenly the plot was way bigger than just the story of the Winchester family, and they had to turn Sam and Dean into meatsuits in order to keep them even remotely connected to the plot.

...but you know all this lol. Sorry, I'm just venting. Don't know how Singer expects to achieve the vibe of S2/3 when you have another heaven/hell A-plot

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Heh, no worries. I definitely agree. I guess we just have to see if Carver's views of S8 differ from what Singer told us, because right now I don't know how those two themes can reconcile either.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

da

I strongly disagree. Not about the concept of family and the immediateness that had made the first seasons work so well, but the introduction of the angels wasn't the turning point. Sam and Dean both played vital, incredibly important roles to the plot in S4. It was S5 that had the switch to Sam and Dean being unimportant and unnecessary, only their bodies serving a purpose. S5 is where it lost focus and became much less interesting, IMO.

The angels are fine as long as they aren't robbing the Winchester family dynamic for their roles (see Michael and Lucifer) and as long as Sam and Dean have a part to play and aren't written into the sidelines (see S6).

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I think you are discounting the fact that S4 led directly to S5. The introduction of the angels represented a lot more than just some cool new characters--it brought in heaven and God and the Devil and the fucking apocalypse. I think in hindsight, that was way too big for this show to handle, and judging by Singer's comments, the people running the show seem to know it. You can't separate the angels from the apocalypse, and I think that's what changed the show from an intricate family drama to whatever it is now.

Re: Extended TV Guide spoilers

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

And you're discounting the fact that S3 led directly to S4 and that, in S4, the focus was still heavily on Sam and Dean as individuals. The stupid vessel thing makes no sense based on the story they were setting up in S4, where Dean was being tested on his ability to lead angels and Ruby was manipulating Sam into freeing Lucifer, not housing him.

An apocalypse storyline is fine. What wasn't fine was taking the focus off Sam and Dean as individuals and making them bit players. That's where the show went wonky but that itself had nothing to do with the apocalypse as a whole. There could have been truly amazing stories where Dean and Sam were main players in the story and not sidelined as unimportant. S4 was setting up for that. S5 did not.