#84

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Comments

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. Hopefully Dean's vision can slot someone else in the shotgun position... Castiel, Benny (Gordon?!), whoever. And honestly, I think he's probably cool with that. He forms relationships pretty easily, even if he rarely gets to keep them.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

da

See, that's the thing--Dean only wants one person in shotgun, and that's half the point of the show. Listen to Jensen talk about the difference between Sam ("his companion") and Cas/Bobby, etc

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but I think in terms of his "purpose", he could feel fulfilled with any companion doing the job with him. He'd be happiest with Sam, but I think he could adapt if Sam really put his foot down and said no.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I think anyone could adapt to anything, but I don't think Dean would be truly happy at this point hunting without Sam there. I think he could probably find purpose in helping people again (thankfully), but even in this interview, Jensen says that Dean truly believes that the two of them are destined for this, and that Sam just needs to realize the purpose of it again like he did

I'm not saying you have to agree, but I can see that from Dean's POV, and I don't think he'd be fulfilled totally with another partner, since Sam and he have a way more intimate relationship (not like that) than anyone else alive could understand

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Yeah, but I don't think feeling like this is what they're destined to do is necessarily the same thing as not being able to be happy if Sam wasn't there. If Sam could live a normal life, and he really wanted it, I think Dean would be able to be happy hunting with someone else.

But of course, I'm not saying you have to agree, either. :) I can see it from Dean's POV that he could be happy, and you could see it from his POV that he couldn't be... it's all subjective interpretation.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

da

aww c'mon, you know that's not gonna happen, not for more than 2 episodes. Sam is shotgun forever. And that's what Dean wants, as we all know.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, it's not gonna happen, for sure. :) But in terms of whether Dean could adapt to someone else riding shotgun as long as he was hunting... I think he could. I don't think he'd feel like his purpose was unfulfilled if Sam decided not to come with him, it's just that Sam being there would be ideal.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Well, yes, maybe his purpose would be filled (maybe), but is not what he wants, what he needs to be happy.

Would be kind of sad to give him something like that.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Do you think Sam needs Dean to be happy?

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

da

If you listen to Jared, obviously not! In fact Sam seems to only be happy once Dean is gone and he can finally get a dog

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

And that is extraordinarily unfair to Dean, in terms of the narrative. Someone posted below that they think Sam's wants shouldn't be adapted to suit Dean's wants by the narrative... likewise, Dean shouldn't be forced by the narrative to want a life with someone who doesn't give a shit about him. It should be equal, or they should be allowed to break apart for good.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

oh EDGs are having a field day with these spoilers aren't you? You enjoy having the "proof" that Sam doesn't give a shit about Dean like you've been claiming all along.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

When has Jared not spun things in a way that isn't exactly how it's portrayed on the show?

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

The reason he gave for Sam feeling like that was interesting, though. I can't cope with Sam not trying to find Dean, but Sam feeling like he can only be happy choosing a normal life once he can do it without feeling like he's leaving anyone, I think that says a lot about the damaging patterns in Sam and Dean's life. Sam's never been able to choose without hurting someone. It's not Sam's fault or Dean's fault that Dean was hurt by Sam wanting Stanford, but it still contributed to a situation where Sam feels like he can't have his own life without abandoning someone.

The fact that Sam's happiness, even when he was grieving for Dean, might have partly because Dean was gone as well as despite the fact that Dean was gone isn't some bizarre awful thing that means Sam doesn't love Dean and is just as happy if not happier when he's dead, it's a natural extension of the kind of dynamic we saw in DSotM. What they desperately need is to reach a point where Sam choosing another life doesn't translate as Sam abandoning Dean, to either of them. It bothers me that the set up of the show is such that this is obviously going to be resolved by Sam choosing to go back to hunting, when having another solution be possible and successful would be much more healing.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Well, till past season, I would had said yes. And I would had said Sam believed his place in the world was hunting with his brother (not Season 1 Sam, but seasons 5-7).

But of course, Sam is not Dean. I know it's not as obvious on Sam as it is on Dean, but still, I think Sam is happy with Dean, and Dean NEEDS Sam to be truly happy. They're not total paralels, but they still complement each other.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

NO. I don't at all. I think Sam likes his independence.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe you think independency menas not needing anyone to be happy?
That's more like being soulless or psychotic.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but it really bothers me if Sam's wants have to be adapted -- by the narrative or within the narrative -- to Dean's wants. Dean's wants aren't any righter or more his right than Sam's, even though the fact that they serve the formula of the show means that they will prevail. Insisting that another person has to be something for your happiness gets very iffy very fast.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly. Dean may not think Sam can have a normal life, just based on prior experience, but I don't think that means he wishes Sam couldn't, or that he'd try to sabotage him. Even back in Something Wicked, he was saying that he wished Sam could have his innocence back.

There are practical realities, things you see as destiny, and things you want for somebody else. If a day comes when Sam honestly wants normalcy, and Dean honestly believes it's possible, I think he'd be happy for Sam to get it.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's up to Dean to decide whether it's possible for Sam.

It's OK for Dean to be bummed if Sam doesn't want what he wants, it's not OK for him to "reel him in" because HE perceives something as their destiny or because HE doesn't think normal life is possible.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

It's up to Dean to feel happy for someone else or not, nonnie. He has a right to his feelings. And if he believes it's possible for Sam, he'll be happy for him. If he doesn't, he'll always look on Sam's normalcy with concern for him.

Any loved one feels happiness or concern when they believe their loved one is making a good choice or not. It doesn't mean they interfere and keep them from making the choice... it just means they're happy for them or worried about them.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

But Dean feeling that it's up to him to "reel Sam in" suggests that he is not just concerned about Sam's choice, but actively trying to pull Sam into living the life that Dean wants for him because of Dean's views about his own purpose rather than that he is stepping back and respecting Sam's choices. The spoiler doesn't say that Dean is concerned that Sam's normal life will come down around his ears, it says Dean has deciding that his purpose is hunting with Sam and he has to reel Sam in when Sam isn't sure he wants that and wants something different.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Why are you assuming so much based on one line spoilers? You guys are ridic.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

Is this from the Jensen interview where he spoke about Dean's failed time with Lisa? If it is, those 3 words are part of a larger context that speaks more to Dean's concern that this kind of life can't last for them than a selfish desire to rip Sam from something that could be his forever-happiness just because Dean doesn't want to be alone. Context is important when discussing spoilers, because people are speaking, not writing (ie, the words they use are off the cuff and it's more dangerous to cling tightly to one particular phrasing), and because they're discussing broad sketches of a season rather than details (because they don't know much yet). I don't get the same impression that you do from these spoilers whatsoever.

Re: Ben Edlund interview--confirms our fears

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Maybe Sam wants?
I don't know, Sam's view on the whole hunting life has chnaged so many times. But i wouldn't say he was really unhappy during most seasons (about hunting, I mean, not about everything else). One of the reasons I find these spoilers so wrong is because we've seen sam kind of okay with hunting. I was not expecting him to quit at all. I was expecting Dean to be there!
So, I don't know. I think Sam actually wants, but maybe he needs to remember that he does and that's what Dean is trying to do.

Just my opinion, of course.