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#84

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+1

not looking forward to season 8 either. It sounds like its going to be a D/C fest with sam as the sidelined character who failed to save Dean yet again.

na

I know! It's like the show is screaming DESTIEL 4EVER at us through a megaphone, what with announcing a quick reunion for Dean and Sam and complete indecision re: Cas.

I don't think that it's indecision. I think it's avoiding spoiling the purgatory storyline.

And if season seven proved anything, it was that putting Sam and Dean in the same car together is NOT a satisfactory brotherly story. They actually have to care about each other and interact and talk to each other.

da

Regardless of whether you were satisfied with the brothers' relationship in season seven, it wasn't a D/C fuckfest with sidelined Sam either. This isn't an either-or situation.

a the ayrt rt

I agree. If someone didn't like the brothers in S7, it's hard to blame it on Cas.

da

Something potentially wanky I've avoided saying before, is that I was kinda glad when the cries of "YAY SHOW IS BACK" died down early in S7. In part because it was personally irritating because I hadn't felt it ever went away, which isn't the wanky part, but also in part because it would have made a lot of fandom experience much less enjoyable for me if ~the return to being good~ just happened to coincide with Cas being downgraded from a regular character. Because him or another other secondary character being there, in the sorts of quantities we're talking about, has nothing to do with whether the writers are interested in writing, or able to write, enough of the acceptable "brotherly bonding" scenes that the fans that miss them want. Not that I'm happy that other fans are unhappy! (For their own sake, and not just because I don't enjoy meme hating the show either). And I too found the season tailed off a lot compared to what it seemed it was setting up, and overall I'd be willing to accept a constant "SHOW IS BACK!" chorus in return for getting a season I enjoyed a lot more. But the wank would have been horrible.

tl;dr, what you said, Cas is orthogonal to whether Sam and Dean's relationship satisfies people.

da

If anything, my biggest complaint is that I felt there was no emotional connection between Sam and Dean last season. I don't know what happened or what went wrong. If they were supposed to be written that way deliberately or whatever. But I seriously did not care for the brothers relationship last season. I seriously hope we do not endure more of that kind of connection between the brothers in season 8.

sa

And honestly, when it comes to Castiel, I feel he is just purely for fan service now. I mean the writers don't even know or have any idea what to do with him. To me, that is a sign that the character has run its course.

da

Are you talking about S7 or S8? Because it's a leap to interpret that article as "we don't have any idea what to do with him". If S7, what made you feel that way? I thought that when he appeared they did have a clear idea of what to do with him, in particular him taking on the damage he'd caused, and his tendency to avoid responsibility being made explicit. For all that hurt!Sam fans saw it as Cas stealing Sam's rightful fanservice, that wasn't what it was.

ayrt

To me, he comes off as a deus ex machine, who only comes into save the boys when something bad happens or needs fixing. That isn't interesting to me at all. I want the boys to save themselves more frequently without Castiel having to angel wipe absolutely all of Sam and Dean's problems whenever they pray to him. And for the past almost 4 seasons, that's all Castiel has been good for, super fixing all of Sam and Dean's problems quickly. I missed the old days of the Winchester's figuring out things for themselves without the help of Castie (and angels). Overall, I'm sick of the whole angels storyline period.

Yeah this. I want my smart!Winchesters back. :/

da

The ones who found all their "lore" from ridiculous websites?

da

These kinds of comments I find all the more baffling after seasons six and seven.

A deus ex machina es essentially when there's an unsolvable problem and BOOM contrivance allows it to be solved. It isn't having a super powerful angel on your side.

Because when they have a super powerful angel on their side, he tends to have a personality of his own, and desires, agendas, agency of his own as well. So SOMETIMES he is there to help them out (send them to the past and pull them back out) many other times he isn't. FOR INSTANCE - tearing down Sam's wall. That was an action taken by a developed character, not by a deus ex machina.

Taking Sam's hell damage was not a deus ex machina action. Because it would have been an out of the blue, just in the nick of time, save that had no relevancy to the plot. INSTEAD, it was done as part of an arc between Sam and Castiel.

ayrt

OK, but I still didn't like the storyline, because I feel that it robbed Sam of the ability to deal with his own storyline. I felt like the writers used Castiel just to be lazy with Sam and his storyline. Castiel is just not relevant to me anymore. He stopped being relevant for me after season 5.

Re: Major Spoilers: TV Guide Interview w/ Robert Singer

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Re: Major Spoilers: TV Guide Interview w/ Robert Singer

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Did you watch S7, you moron? There were plenty of dei ex machina there without Cas in the mix.

da

Maybe you changed? IDK, because I didn't see this lack, I sometimes wonder what's wrong with me, and of course it's more fun to speculate about ~what's wrong with you~ instead. Lots of other people as well as you, of course. It could be something like diminishing returns? I really don't know, so don't take this comment too seriously.

da

Yeah, I don't get it either. I didn't see a lack. There's nothing wrong with you. The season had issues and was disappointing in a lot of ways, but this whole "lack" thing is entirely invented butthurt.

na

Season 7 had a lot of problems, but I still don't know what show people who think there wasn't any caring, interacting, etc, between Sam and Dean last season watched.

The mind boggles.

da

DESTIEL 4EVER ... and complete indecision re: Cas

They probably can't decide if he tops of bottoms. Fools.

sa

*or

I don't think my typo resulted in an amusing alternate meaning, but I'm not entirely sure.

da

I'm OKAY with Cas as the top of Winchester's bottoms, including John's.

Heeey. Can there be lists? And the comparing of notes? And Mary?

"Look Cas, there is no way in Crowley's line in hell you're pulling that move on me, I'm not Plasticman."

"I understand Dean, I'll reserve that for Sam, unlike you he's strong enough for my more... adventurous maneuvers."

"Oh no you don't! I'm not falling for your passive aggressive crap, I don't care what you and Sam do, no way!"

"Very well, although I'll have you know that I also did it with your father, John Winchester, he, what's the expression? ah, took it like a man."

"Jesus fucking christ! I don't need to know!"

"But it's true, and he was proud that he can do it even at his age."

"Cas, Shut up! grab all the lube, we're gonna do it and never speak of it again, got it?"

"I'll be right back Dean."

"And don't forget the Bengay, I'll need it after."

*_____________________________*

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

Oh my GUH XD
Hilarious! Thank you for that, nonnie!

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